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Tuesday, October 26, 1999

<  Session 493 (Private/Phone)  >

“Bridging Science and Religion”

“The Dream Mission/The Equation”

“The Remembrance is Not a Memory”

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Paul (Caroll).

Vic’s note: Elias spoke slowly and deliberately in this session, and had a serious expression on his face throughout most of it.

Elias arrives at 2:06 PM. (Arrival time is 15 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good morning!

PAUL: Good morning, old friend. Our conversation continues!

ELIAS: Ha ha!

PAUL: (Laughing) I have questions today.

ELIAS: Very well.

PAUL: I think I want to start today with a question about bridging science and religion, bridging physics and mysticism.

There’s this body of information called the perennial philosophy, and there are many thinkers who have contributed to this body of information, and it basically takes a look at subjective experience over recorded history and attempts to look at ways that there are consistent expressions from subjective self into objective awareness and knowing. I’m wondering if you would just comment on that idea.

My question really is, there’s a lot of work happening today, in this country and in the western world for sure, that deals with bridging physics and mysticism, looking for unification, as it were, or unity, a holistic approach. So, the perennial philosophy and the work in this area is being used by physicists and by mystics to attempt to build that bridge, where both things are seen as aspects of a larger whole, and I wonder if you would just comment on that.

ELIAS: (Chuckling) Once again, we move in the direction of methods!

I shall express to you that individuals within the direction of your sciences and your religions have been attempting to be creating of this bridge, so to speak, for much of your history, and I express to you that for a time framework, they shall continue to be moving in this direction.

The individuals within religious expressions shall continue to be proving what they view as spiritual expressions, and objectifying and solidifying elements of consciousness into your physical reality that creates, as I have stated, a proof of the validity of experiences and expressions that are not easily explained objectively and that move into the area identified as mysticism.

And your sciences continue to be attempting to create a method to be inserting elements of consciousness into physical manifestations and solid expressions that you may view.

And in this, each shall continue within their explorations, and they shall continue to be creating of frustration to the point in which each recognizes that these elements are not opposite or at odds or separated, but that they are all merely expressions of one creation.

In this, as all of you continue to be moving in the direction of creating a search in the area of separation, you shall continue to frustrate yourselves and not in actuality offer yourselves the answers which you seek, for the answers which you seek, although they be quite obvious, are not obvious in the direction that you are seeking them. They are obvious in your expressions of self.

And in this, as each of you move in the direction of exploration of self and allow yourselves to be moving in the direction of genuine acceptance of self, you shall also discover that the directions you pursue in attempting to be building these bridges, so to speak, are just an expression of continuing to be running upon your hamster wheels, and it matters not! (Chuckling)

PAUL: Thank you. That’s interesting, and I understand that.

I guess I’m also curious though, this expression that they call the perennial philosophy does ... well, let’s not use the word bridge, but it expresses something that has been present throughout human history, certainly the last eight thousand years; let’s say recorded history, which I know is just a drop in the bucket, but it’s a lot of time for us. It seems that our subjective selves, the collective consciousness, constantly expresses itself individually certainly, and in certain individuals with a greater clarity perhaps, and this is just a condition that continues for our experience, does it not?

ELIAS: This is a choice. This is the choice of the individual to be allowing themselves to be open to their natural abilities.

And in this, your sciences and your religions continue to view the expressions of individuals – as they choose to be opening to elements of their awareness and their natural abilities – as a phenomenon and as miraculous and as unusual expressions.

I express to you that any manifestation which is created within your reality is an expression of yourselves.

In this, all of the amazing stories that you present to yourselves are merely the expression of your natural abilities, and as you allow yourselves to be trusting and accepting of self, you create these types of expressions quite easily and quite naturally.

I shall express to you, small children express wonders continuously, and in these expressions, your sciences AND your religions pay little attention, for it is much more amazing to all of you that adults shall be creating of the same expressions that small children create with ease.

Let me express to you once again:

In this, you create many different types of philosophies, you create many different avenues of exploration, and you create many expressions of investigations to be offering yourselves proofs.

This is the direction that creates frustration and creates an automatic discounting of the individual manifestation within your physical dimension.

For although you may objectively create a thought process that you are creating a validation to yourselves of your abilities, I express to you that in actuality, you are merely creating another avenue to be discounting of your natural abilities.

For if you are moving in the direction of acceptance and trust of self, you shall also offer yourself the knowing – the KNOWING – that these are natural abilities; the knowing of the interconnectedness of all of the individuals that physically occupy your planet, the consciousness which is not separated from one individual to another individual, and that you as physical individuals are not separated regardless of what you view physically in the manifestation of individual forms.

This be the reason that you may very efficiently be creating of collective movements in which you are all experiencing different aspects of the same waves that you create within consciousness.

Individuals do not necessarily discuss objectively and concentrate upon and create a philosophy and a plan in conjunction with each other to be creating of a collective experience in which many, many, many individuals shall participate and conjointly create an illness simultaneously, but you DO move in the direction of expressing to yourselves and to each other the belief that you may be affecting or INFECTING each other with an illness that you TRANSMIT to each other.

This offers you an objective explanation within the context of your beliefs that you share some movement together collectively in mass creation, but you wish not to be threatening the individuality and the unique expression and choice of each individual. Therefore, you express that you transmit to each other a contagion, so to speak.

In actuality, in noticing and ACCEPTING self and trusting of self, you also open your awareness to all that you are creating and participating within, and therefore offer yourself the objective realization of KNOWING that there is no separation and that you jointly create these mass expressions, and that you are not transmitting, so to speak, any particular creation to each other and infecting each other or responding necessarily to each other, but that you are simultaneously, jointly creating one action.

The transmission or the idea of transmission from one individual to another individual – this concept of transmitting certain creations – is another expression of your creation of linear time framework, and this moves quite in conjunction with your belief of reincarnation. (1)

You believe that you move linearly. You believe that you transmit one element from another element. You do not recognize objectively that it is not a situation of transmission. It is an expression of a simultaneous creation without separation.

Therefore, as you look to these expressions of philosophies, these explorations of consciousness, initially you may offer yourselves a type of objective validation that you are interconnected and that you are creating simultaneously.

But I also express to you, allow yourself to be aware that these movements continue to perpetuate also your discounting of your natural abilities, and continue to hold an element of expression of amazement.

Look to your individual expression. As you engage certain information, your initial response is amazement. Your initial response is, “Oh! This is so very amazing to me! Other individuals are connecting and understanding the same or similar elements to what I am offering to myself!”

Of course they are connecting and they are offering themselves philosophies and information in similar manner, for you are all interconnected, and what you offer to yourself you also offer to the whole of consciousness, and this moves with every individual upon your planet.

PAUL: Thank you. That’s very interesting.

I question ... about the collective consciousness and the lack of separation therein that you were just expounding on, from my perspective anyway, this last six thousand, eight thousand year period of time is certainly a time of what you have described as ... maybe “severe” is the wrong word, but strong separation from essence. The oubliette, the forgetting that we experience, is very strong.

And I’m curious what your thoughts would be on the collective consciousness. Even though it engages this area of time, a time framework of severe separation, it always seems to – and I’m bringing it back to this perennial notion – it seems to express so-called amazing stories that seem to be amazing in the context of beliefs in separation, but as those beliefs in separation neutralize or melt and the reconnection or remembrance occurs, they’re no longer considered amazing stories.

So, it is in fact a quality of mass collective consciousness to provide reminders through what we call amazing stories, reminders of our remembrance, I guess.

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct, and this is displayed objectively throughout your history and continues to be expressed objectively presently, although presently within this now, you may view many more expressions of this type as you ARE engaging this shift in consciousness.

Be aware that I am not expressing to any of you that the manner in which you have created your reality to this point is wrong or bad. You have quite efficiently created your reality to this point, and quite purposefully. You are merely choosing a different direction within the action of this shift, which is not to be expressed in the manner of a judgment upon the choice that you have created previously, for this also has been quite purposeful.

You are merely choosing a different expression presently within the action of this shift in offering yourselves more of an expression of creativity with less limitations throughout the expression of this physical dimension; in which, as you have stated, the amazing stories become recognized as natural abilities and are no longer the amazing stories, and this provides you the opportunity to be creating NEW amazing stories!

PAUL: Right. I was just going to mention that, that as we engage the remembrance, as it were, and things like crop circles, gray squishy guys, telepathy and so forth become understood and no longer considered amazing, I immediately turn my attention to, “Then what shall we create to be amazing ourselves?” And that seems to be our nature, to amaze ourselves in our own becoming. So that’s what this shift is all about.

ELIAS: Quite! You are continuously exploring, for all of consciousness is continuously exploring and creating and becoming, and in this, you are continuously exerting your creativity to be creating new elements of reality.

And therefore, as you have already created a certain type of amazing stories throughout your history, you seek now to be creating a NEW type of amazing stories, and accepting that those creations that you have engaged previously are natural abilities that you have explored repeatedly.

Now you offer yourselves the opportunity to explore new areas of your reality, inserting new and exciting elements into your physical reality, in which I have stated previously, your science fiction becomes more as science fact, and your science fact becomes recognized as natural.

PAUL: That’s very interesting, and that leads me to my next question. I was talking to Mary before we started about her dream mission, and I realized – I had forgotten this – that she coined the term “dream mission,” and you’ve used it a number of times in the sessions. I’m wondering if you would just comment on the term, on your perspective of the term “dream mission,” and what it means.

ELIAS: This is the terminology that Michael has created which identifies an exploration of certain elements of consciousness that many of you within your physical dimension do not necessarily allow yourself to be engaging.

And in this, as I have offered information previously in conjunction with the subjective and objective awarenesses and the reality that is created – with the participation of both, not singularly as an expression of either element of your reality – there has been created this dream mission, so to speak, in which you offer yourselves the opportunity to be moving in the direction of exploring your subjective awareness, the type of imagery that you create in conjunction with your subjective awareness, and how the imagery of your objective awareness moves in conjunction with the imagery of your subjective awareness.

(Speaking slowly) Now; be understanding: subjective imagery is not necessarily imagery in the definition of images. Objective imagery moves in large portion in the direction of images. The images that you offer to yourself within dream state are objective. This is the interplay of objective awareness within your dream state.

The dream state itself is a subjective movement. It is, in a manner of speaking, figuratively speaking, a subjective realm. Your waking state is your objective realm, so to speak.

Within the objective realm, there is subjective interaction and expression and imagery, and in like manner, in the subjective realm, there is objective interaction and imagery.

The images that are projected and created within your dream state is the objective participation. The impressions, the sensing, the impulses, the knowings, and at times the feelings that you experience within your waking state are the subjective identifiable insertions into your objective realm.

Objective expressions are not all solid and are not all translated into images. You do create objective expressions of thoughts, of emotions, which are not solid and are not necessarily images.

Within your subjective creations, the subjective expression is not necessarily an expression of images, although at times it may – in conjunction with your objective awareness – move in the direction of creating images. In like manner to your objective expression being generally the creation of images, the subjective is generally not the creation of images.

Are you understanding thus far?

PAUL: Yes, I am. I have a question about the relationship between subjective and objective experience. It’s clearly a two-way system, for lack of a better word, meaning that thoughts and emotions that may not necessarily even be images, that are certainly a very objective part of our waking state, definitely reach into and communicate with subjective, collective consciousness and act as a magnet, perhaps, in terms of probabilities and choices?

ELIAS: Not necessarily a magnet, but many times as a facilitating element.

PAUL: So there is a two-way give-and-take between the objective and subjective selves?

ELIAS: Yes, very much so.

The awarenesses of subjective and objective are continuously in harmony and are continuously interplaying with each other. One does not move independently of the other.

PAUL: Right.

Now, in session 135, you made a comment to the effect that part of this dream mission, so to speak, is creating an efficient language for translation of subjective activity into objective knowing, and I’m curious about your thoughts on this efficient language. (2)

Mary and I discussed it a little bit beforehand, and we realize that it’s not an alpha-numeric language in terms of science and separation and describing parts of a machine in parts. But I’m very curious what you would have to say – some clues, perhaps, or puzzle pieces – in terms of this efficient language for translation.

ELIAS: This moves very much in conjunction with what we have been discussing in relation to your sciences and your religions and your philosophies, and my expression to you in turning the attention to self and the acceptance and trust of self. THIS action creates that language of which I am speaking of.

And in this, as you turn your attention to self and you familiarize yourself with yourself, and you become accepting and trusting of self and all that you create and how you create and how you express yourself, you also allow yourself to incorporate all of the different expressions and aspects of yourself.

And in this, you incorporate the movement of the subjective and objective awarenesses, knowing that these two elements of yourself, of your creation of your reality, move in harmony with each other. They are not at odds with each other, and one does not move independent of the other.

As you allow yourself to move into a recognition of all that you are and of yourself in acceptance, recognizing that there is no element of yourself which is creating your reality without your permission – there is no element of yourself that is hidden from you – recognizing that all that you create is purposeful and that YOU are orchestrating ALL of it, you also begin to create your language to yourself in OBJECTIVE terms.

You begin to understand what you are and your abilities and what you are creating within your reality ... and that you ARE creating your reality. And as you allow yourself this awareness, you create a natural flow of energy, and in that natural flow of energy, you begin to create your individual language to yourself. This language may not necessarily be translated into thoughts, but it shall efficiently be communicating to you in knowings.

Now; this may be directly related to that which we term to be this dream mission, for this is an accessible area in which you may be viewing different types of expressions that you create objectively and subjectively. You allow yourselves to view this in objective terms, and in this, as you begin to create your individual language to yourself, you also begin to offer yourself the interpretation or the translation of subjective awareness, or at times dream imagery, and you offer yourself the remembrance.

The remembrance is not a memory! It is a state of being. It is a knowing. Therefore, as you engage the remembrance, you are engaging a manner of being, a perception, a knowing, not a memory of an event.

(Intently) As you engage the remembrance in conjunction with dream imagery, you are not necessarily recalling the event of the dream imagery and translating that into an interpretation within thoughts, but you are creating an actual state of being in conjunction with the dream imagery.

(Intently) You are creating a perception which is not necessarily translated into thoughts, but is merely enacted in being, and there is held a knowing within you, regardless that you may not identify in actual words or language, for you have created your own language to yourself, which is the bridge, so to speak, from the oubliette into the actualization in objective awareness of remembrance.

And this is the point – not to be creating a philosophy, not to be drawing comparisons, but to be creating your individual language that is creating the translation into objective awareness. This is your movement from the oubliette into the remembrance.

PAUL: Fascinating, and it rings true. The question then, about this language ... you’ve mentioned this before, I think it was in session 179, about learning to recognize feeling and not the literal image. (3) Mary and I were talking about this too, that this feeling is not necessarily a thought or an emotion, and I guess I’m curious. You’ve used the term “feeling tone” before. I would imagine this feeling tone is very much a part of this individual language, is it not?

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct.

PAUL: So that’s an important part of recognizing that, as each individual’s feeling tone is utterly unique within the context of their own essence tone.

ELIAS: You are correct, and this is the element of turning your attention to self and allowing yourself the recognition and the identification of yourself, the acceptance of yourself, and the incorporation of ALL of the expressions and elements and aspects and actions and creations and movements of energy in conjunction with yourself. As you move in this direction, you also allow yourself the recognition, the identification of your individual tone of yourself and of your feeling of yourself.

PAUL: So in engaging the remembrance, as it were, one is moving into a more direct experience of their own essence tone?

ELIAS: Correct.

PAUL: That makes sense.

Another question, Elias. In session 148, Carole presented what you called an equation. She used the words, “relay the force pattern as a source of tension.” You described that as an equation, in which the answer helps to answer her question in the dream mission: how do I create my reality? (4) I wondered if you would comment a little bit more about how you use the concept of equation in this context. It’s certainly not a scientific, mathematical, numeric equation. It has a different meaning.

ELIAS: You are correct in this. The meaning of this terminology of equation is to be placing together the elements of self to be creating the sum or the whole.

Within your physical reality, as you are aware, you have created these separations. Therefore, you also create a process in moving into a lack of separation or less of a separation, and this creates the elements of an equation. For within an equation, you incorporate different elements that you place together to be creating of a product or a sum, so to speak; an outcome, in a manner of speaking.

What you are creating in this equation, so to speak, is an incorporation of all of the elements or aspects of self to be creating the outcome, figuratively speaking, of the lessening of separation within physical terms, and the opening to freedom of your continued exploration.

Therefore, as you turn your attention to self and are noticing and examining and exploring the different elements of yourself – the subjective and objective awarenesses – and you are merging these and creating a balance in expression of these in objective terms – for they are balanced, but you do not hold an objective balance of these two elements of your awarenesses – you are creating the action of the equation.

PAUL: So then the equation, so to speak, incorporates both subjective and objective self?


PAUL: Now, in this example of “relay the force pattern as a source of tension,” only reacting objectively to it ’cause that’s the state I’m in presently, there seems to be three elements there: the force pattern, the source of tension, and the action of relaying.

Now, is that sort of thought process helpful in interpreting the equation, or is it a starting point to move more into the feeling tone and connecting with subjective self?

ELIAS: A beginning. The force pattern is the subjective. (Pause)

PAUL: And the source of tension? (Pause)

ELIAS: This is the action of the translation. (Pause)

PAUL: And then relaying, is that also an action?

ELIAS: This is an action, that you shall be relaying the knowing and the information to the objective awareness.

PAUL: Very interesting. Thank you.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome. I shall be accepting of one more question for this day.

PAUL: Alrighty. Let’s try a dream. I’d like to get your impressions on a dream experience that I had, and again, I did talk to Mary about this. This was what I call an out-of-body experience, and it was what I call a big one, which means from my perception it lasted for quite a long time. I also did not have a lot of objective memory of it, but I have that feeling tone of its duration, which is quite interesting and enjoyable to me. A couple of things happened during that.

One is, I have been doing this for a number of years now, basically merging with objects, walking through walls, diving into floors, breathing the dirt and the grass under the lawn, things like that was one thing that happened. Also in this event, or series of events, as I interpret them, I dove through the window again and got stuck and extracted myself, and concentrated harder and got through. That’s imagery that has appeared before that I’d like you to comment on.

There was a black teenager who I had given a cello lesson to that thanked me. That was one thing, and later on, he reappeared – well, it’s important for later on – where I was at my childhood home in the TV room in the back, sitting on a couch, and a male was there, and I asked him, “Are you my guide?” – and by guide, I mean I was looking for an aspect of self who can provide me with information, and I also called it “future Paul” – and he said he was, and I got extremely excited. (Here, Mary’s dog starts growling and barking)

I was very excited that I had connected with “future Paul” because I had been attempting to do that for several months, and the thing that he said to me is – I asked him how many focuses I had – “I’d like to reduce the number of aspects for now,” which I interpreted basically as a less is more kind of thing, or simplifying things. But anyway, this is a broader experience that was very significant to me, and I’d appreciate your comments.

ELIAS: This is what we may classify, so to speak, as a projection, and I express to you that you have also allowed yourself to be interactive with an aspect of essence.

Now; let me clarify that this aspect of essence is not necessarily an aspect of you within this focus, for in allowing yourself to be connecting with another aspect of self within this focus – this would also be termed an alternate self – you shall experience some elements of barriers, so to speak, that you shall not be threatening your individual identity. This is a different type of action than you have created in this projection. (5)

In this projection, you have allowed yourself to be encountering another aspect of essence, and as you have allowed yourself to image this aspect of essence, you also are offering yourself information in the direction to not be moving quite so singularly.

Are you understanding?

PAUL: Yes.

ELIAS: This provides you with the opportunity to engage another aspect of essence, which you may incorporate as a trigger, so to speak, to be offering yourself more information and to be offering yourself information of self that shall move you more easily into directions of acceptance of self.

And in this, the aspect of essence is communicating information to you to hold yourself in relaxation, and therefore allow yourself to open to more than you view – more than merely this one aspect, more than singular directions.

You hold a belief that you may not access or acquire information if you are not holding a specific direction, that you need be mapping out, so to speak, a particular direction, and you shall direct yourself in a manner in which you shall engage a particular journey, and therefore you shall offer yourself the information that you seek, and if you are not moving in this type of action, you shall be creating chaos, and in that chaos, you shall not be understanding what you offer to yourself, and therefore you shall not assimilate the information.

What the aspect is expressing to you is not to concern yourself so very intensely with one particular direction, and to relax and allow yourself to merely draw yourself into the information that you shall present yourself with, and you need not hold specifics to be offering yourself much information and much direction.

Are you understanding?

PAUL: Yes, I am. Just one follow-up question. In this particular experience, and in others during the summer when I’ve connected with a person, so to speak, as I image them, they change faces, shall we say. They morph from one aspect into another, and it’s slow, it’s gentle, and I’m very comfortable with it. I’m wondering if this is further imagery to reinforce that nudge to not focus so singularly.

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct.

PAUL: So I should open to that, and go with that, and take it wherever it may take me.

ELIAS: Wherever you are taking yourself! (Grinning)

PAUL: Of course! (They both laugh) Well, thank you so much. This has been marvelous! You’ve given me, as always, a tremendous amount to think about until we meet again.

ELIAS: And we shall!

PAUL: Yes, we shall, old friend.

ELIAS: And you may offer my greetings to Tyl, and I shall express encouragement to you on your continued quest. (Laughing)

PAUL: (Laughing) Thank you so much!

ELIAS: You are very welcome. To you, my friend, I offer great affection, and shall be offering energy to you in your movement presently. To you this day, I express quite lovingly, au revoir.

PAUL: Au revoir.

Elias departs at 3:13 PM.


(1) Vic’s note: I have changed one word in the following phrase:

“The transmission or the idea of transmission from one individual to another individual – this concept of transmitting certain creations – is another expression of your creation of linear time framework ...”

When Elias said this sentence, he said, “The transmission or the idea of transition ...” When he said “transition,” he paused briefly and almost corrected himself, but then went on. My impression is that he meant to say “transmission,” so I have changed it.

(2) Paul’s note: here’s the excerpt from session 135 I referred to:

NORM: “One of the questions is in regard to the relationship of the brain, and not using parts of the brain, and our thinking mechanism. And then, what happens when we have out-of-body experiences in the waking state, and then we have out-of-body experiences in the dreaming state? It seemed to me that, and I think I did have an out-of-body experience when I was fifteen or sixteen years old, that I was able to think as well in that out-of-body experience. I looked down on my body and there it was. I’m trying to figure out what the relationship is between my physical brain and my real ability to think. It felt like I had some kind of a spiritual essence or a spiritual form that came out of my body and moved with me in my bedroom, in Sioux City, Iowa in 1945 or 1946. So is it true that my thinking has really nothing to do with my brain?

ELIAS: (Chuckling) This engagement is quite amusing! Once again, we shall take your questions in order, of questions within one question!

RETA: That’s how he talks all the way! (Elias is still chuckling)

ELIAS: You engage the action of what you term to be out-of-body experiences within waking state, within sleeping state, consciously, unconsciously, in your terms, within altered states, in your terms. You may experience out-of-body action, so to speak, within what you term to be a daydream. Within missing time, as you experience, you are experiencing an out-of-body. You experience this action much of your time. You are not aware objectively of this action, for you do not translate into your objective language the action that you are engaged in.

As to your thinking while you are engaged in this action of out-of-body; the action of physical thought is quite valuable if you may train yourself to be consciously, objectively consciously, aware within the action of out-of-body experience. Thought processes are a creation of physical focus. You think in terms of language, which is symbolic. Thoughts, within physical focus, are symbolic energy. They are symbols. They are a language. Therefore, it would be helpful to you if you allowed yourselves to train your objective consciousness, your thought processes, to mingle with your subjective activity and create an efficient language for translation of subjective activity into objective knowing. You do not remember your experiences out-of-body, for you have not created this language to be translating subjective activity. Therefore, you have no frame of reference within your objective, waking state. You then are left with ‘blank space.’

NORM: Not even feelings or intuition.

ELIAS: You are attempting to translate non-physical, subjective consciousness action into objective consciousness; this being the same as what you expressed earlier within the action of Regional Area 3, and wishing to know the mechanics of this area of consciousness. You are attempting to label experiences which do not fit within this area of consciousness. Therefore, they must be translated. All that you view is a translation. All that you think is a translation. Within other areas of consciousness, thought is not what you ‘think!’

RETA: So we have to learn, or find steps to take, to get more of that subjective material into our life.

ELIAS: Notice Michael’s [Mary’s] dream mission! This shall be your key.” [session 135, November 24, 1996]

(3) Paul’s note: here’s the excerpt from session 179 I referred to:

HOWARD: Okay. Well, this is just a personal question that might not be interesting to you all, but since we're going back ... The Dream Walkers; actually, I want to refer specifically to an Indian named Smohalla who was born at the end of the seventeen hundreds, really eighteen, and he lived on the Columbia River Plateau – Imatilla. He practiced or became a priest in a cult called the dreamers, and I have been trying to find out more about him because that cult spread into the Nez Percé and to some of the surrounding Indians. And from that came, as I understand it, Wavoka, who in turn taught the Sioux the ghost dance.

My question is, basically: How were they able to use the dream work and become such a major cult at that time among the Native Americans, who are pretty difficult to dissuade from their own traditions? I’m needing to know this for my own personal knowing, and perhaps some other things that I can’t really explain.

ELIAS: You are wishing information of method of dream interaction?

HOWARD: That’s right.

ELIAS: This correlates also to this present dream mission. These individuals also manifest quite similarly in practice to what you recognize as South American Indians, which held recognition of the nine [essence] families which they did not designate as families, but in their Night Watchers, their spirits, they also held quite effective and intricate dream activity; these being those which you recognize as the Mayans. There is presently another group which holds the same continued recognition, also located within South American territory.

These individuals became dream artists, holding the ability to be manipulating within dream state efficiently and understanding the translation of imagery from the dream state into objective waking state. This is accomplished by paying close attention to dream activity and also recognizing the feeling, not the image. Each image attaches to a feeling. This is not necessarily an emotion. It is a feeling, which may be also interpreted as a sense. In this, they have highly developed inner senses to be connecting within dream imagery; therefore allowing an understanding of imagery which is created within dream state, and allowing for an efficient translation into waking state. This, as I have stated previously in relation to this dream mission, is very difficult. It may be accomplished, but you shall not accomplish this immediately, for you must diligently practice and become a dream artist; knowing and incorporating those inner senses within your dream state, recognizing that your imagery is reality but it is also symbolism simultaneously; just as within your waking state, your imagery (pounding on the table) is reality, but it is also symbolism. It is solid, but it is not solid. It is stationery, but it is within constant motion, for it is energy. Your dream imagery is no different. It only speaks a different language. Therefore, your method is to translate the language of your dream imagery into the language of your waking imagery.

HOWARD: Okay. Sounds real easy! (Laughter) All right. Thank you.” [session 179, June 01, 1997]

(4) Paul’s note: here’s the excerpt from session 148 I referred to:

ELIAS: “We continue.

CAROLE: Elias. Relay the force pattern as a source of tension.

ELIAS: No! You relay the force pattern as a source of tension! (And we all crack up. Elias is grinning widely)

CAROLE: Does that sentence have something to do with the electric light show I saw blinking on and off when I got that sentence? Is that the energy that we have to be able to access to create?

ELIAS: Accessing energy! Very good beginning!

CAROLE: And then we need to engage action with the energy?

ELIAS: This is a sentence presented to you objectively, in description of subjective activity. Your question is, ‘How do I create my reality?’ Your answer is this.

CAROLE: Create the force pattern as a source of tension.

ELIAS: You must be engaging your periphery and allowing yourself a wider explanation and definition of these words, for these words indicate the action which you engage within Regional Area 2 in creating your reality, and also within your dream mission behind the imagery. It is the same.

CAROLE: How would I consciously move my consciousness to the place in the dream imagery where that information becomes clearer to me?

ELIAS: You do not move your consciousness to a place. You allow yourself to understand your imagery which you have created for your symbolism; recognizing that you create symbols to explain action to yourself, and also recognizing, as I have stated previously, that each symbol, every symbol, is a symbol, and also holds its own integrity and therefore is a reality.” [session 148, January 14, 1997]

(5) Paul’s note: Elias makes an interesting distinction here based upon another experience that I had discussed with him in October 1997 and again in March 1999. He said that I connected with an alternate self at that time.

Here are the excerpts from my discussions about Manson, an alternate self:

PAUL: “Another dream experience that happened recently, a very lucid experience where I get this tingling, a crystal clear tingling in my forehead, as objective as I am now perceiving you. I asked Caroll [Paul], not using that name, to present him/her/itself, and a focus appeared, and I got the name ‘Manson.’ It was a fairly average-looking male, older than me, and I was very excited to see this appear. I tried to engage it in verbal communication and my throat constricted, and I realized that I was attempting to communicate in a way that was not as efficient or appropriate, and I choked on it and I woke up and I was really frustrated. I guess my question is, I had asked to connect with a future focus – that’s one of my little games I play with myself – and I’m wondering if this ‘Manson’ aspect is a future focus, and if you could comment on the type of communication I was attempting and not quite succeeding at?

ELIAS: There are two elements to this intersection; one being that you have presented yourself with a future focus, which is not a focus in your linear terms yet, for presently it is an aspect of this focus. It is a future focus simultaneously, but within your time thickness and your linear time designations, it also is an aspect of this present focus; an alternate self. Therefore, you experience difficulty in communication with this alternate self, for you create a barrier. This would be your barrier that you have created between these two aspects of this focus, in like manner to Michael’s [Mary’s] viewing of an alternate self, but not holding the ability to penetrate a field to touch the other aspect, creating a barrier between the two. Communication was allowed, but no contact was allowed, for a veil was placed between, for this is a slightly different action than intersecting with another focus. If allowing yourself to be connecting with this same aspect, which IS the other focus, you shall be more successful. If pursuing connecting or intersecting with this aspect as an aspect of you presently, you shall be experiencing slight difficulties, but you may be accomplishing if you are choosing to be pursuing this area.

PAUL: You mentioned certain parts of the experience not being allowed. That implies other essences that I’m....

ELIAS: Incorrect! Absolutely incorrect. It is not allowed by yourself, for it may be threatening to your individual identity, for this aspect is also you and not separate from you.

VICKI: Can I ask a question about that? So to go to the analogy of the tree and the branches and the leaves, this interaction could be viewed as a leaf? Is this correct?

(Vic’s note: this is in reference to Elias’ analogy of essence as a tree. Basically, he said that we could view a tree as essence, the branches as focuses of essence, the leaves as alternate selves and probable selves and splinters, and the seeds that fall to the ground as fragments, which then become an entirely new tree, but holding all the same qualities as the first tree.)

ELIAS: Correct.

VICKI: But you also said that within the context of a time thickness, it is also a future focus?

ELIAS: Correct.

VICKI: So does the leaf then turn into a branch?

ELIAS: They are connected. The leaf and the branch exist simultaneously, but they are different. They are both elements of the tree, but they occupy different positions; the branch being the focus, the leaf being the alternate. They are existing simultaneously. They are connected. They hold different functions and capacities. It would be as the leaf fading in and out, being an element of the branch, but then appearing as the leaf, then appearing as an element of the branch, and leaving ghost trails of the leaf.

VICKI: So I would imagine that this particular explanation of this action wouldn’t apply to all of what we consider alternate selves?

ELIAS: No. (Intently) Within each focus, as I have expressed, you hold myriads of alternate selves. They are not necessarily focuses. They are aspects of you, but you view yourselves so very singularly that you view yourselves as occupying one physical body with one thought process, with one mind, with one everything, but you are not. You are myriads of you’s within each focus; and within certain actions and probabilities, you may be choosing to be creating a focus of an alternate you, which is within simultaneous time already, but also is as you within an alternate self. Therefore, you may be interacting with them each individually, although they are the same. But within the choice of which direction you focus your attention and choose to be intersecting, if you are choosing to be intersecting with another focus, this is not quite as threatening to your individual identity within this particular focus, for you view within your belief systems that you may understand that another focus is an aspect of you, but holds its own integrity and is not you. Within an alternate, this does not exist. This alternate IS you. It is the same as you, for it is another aspect of you.

Just as you do not divide your emotional qualities from yourself and assign that they are different entities. You may be feeling joy or you may be feeling sadness, and these exist within you as elements of you. You do not separate them out and express, ‘This individual here is sadness; it walks beside me. This individual here is joyfulness; it walks beside me. I am neither of these entities, for these are separate elements of me and they are removed into separate entities.’ You do not view yourself in this manner. In the same respect, you may not separate alternates either. They are you; but in confronting yourself with an alternate, it is the same as popping out of yourself one singular emotion and creating another entity and facing yourself with this other you, which may not be separated out. You objectively image another image, another form, for this is what you understand, but this image is not another form. It is you.

In this, this be the reason that you hold the threat of identity in viewing an alternate where you do not feel quite such a threat of individual identity in intersecting with another focus, for you do hold limited understanding that another focus is not you.

(Vic’s note: Oh, I get it now!)

PAUL: So it was my fear of losing individuality when confronting myself right here that kept me from communicating with myself?

ELIAS: And completely intersecting. This is common. You may, if choosing to be pursuing this avenue and this intersection, you may be accomplishing in this, although this shall require more practice than would be necessary within intersection of another focus.” [session 224, October 01, 1997]

PAUL: “... I have another follow-up question then. In October of 1997, we talked about an experience of mine, an out-of-body, where I connected with what I believe you termed at that time as an alternate future self. I did get a name of Manson and a very clear visual, but I had difficulty communicating and talking. So my question is, is that focus that I connected with in that experience, is that one of the focuses that’s probably holding a dissimilar tone? Because it was difficult for me to communicate. Is that correct?

ELIAS: No. Although you held difficulty in communication, you did not hold difficulty in accessing.

Many times you may experience difficulty in your actual objective communication and interaction with another focus. You are crossing what you may term to be barriers – time dimensions – and therefore you are engaging different layers of consciousness, and translations need be placed in order, in a manner of speaking. Therefore, you shall be experiencing certain elements of difficulty if you are attempting to be objectively interacting with the other individual.

Be remembering, this other individual IS another individual, but is also simultaneously you.

Therefore, this creates a difficulty, for engaging other focuses of essence within physical focus may disrupt your identity temporarily, as I have expressed previously. Therefore, there are barriers that you have created within physical focus to be preventing this action of confusing your individual identity.

In this, a focus which holds a slightly different tone from yourself ... you shall hold difficulty in accessing objective awareness of them at all.” [session 377, March 23, 1999]

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