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Tuesday, January 01, 2002

<  Session 976 (Private/Phone)  >

ďBen and Elias Get DownĒ

Participants: Mary (Michael), Ben (Albert) and Joe (Malia).

Elias arrives at 1:54 PM. (Arrival time is 22 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

BEN & JOE: Good afternoon!

BEN: So, Elias, I want to introduce you to somebody.

ELIAS: Very well.

BEN: This is Joe.

JOE: Hello.

ELIAS: Welcome!

BEN: I thought we might start off, if you could give him his essence information?

ELIAS: Essence name, Malia, M-A-L-I-A (MAHL ee ah). And your impression as to essence families?

BEN: I think thereís some Sumari in there somewhere.


BEN: Oh, and? And ... Tumold? Iím guessing. (Elias chuckles)

ELIAS: Essence family, Sumari; alignment, Vold.

BEN: And orientation is soft.

ELIAS: Correct.

BEN: What kind of name is Malia? Does it have a particular geographic association?

ELIAS: In association with language, this may be recognized as Polynesian.

BEN: Polynesian!

JOE: Interesting.

BEN: I thought we might start out by ... I was going to ask you, how many focuses do Malia and I share together in this physical dimension?

ELIAS: Twelve.

BEN: Now, itís my impression that the intimate partnership that we have now might be unique among these 12.

ELIAS: In this capacity, yes.

BEN: What other kinds of relationships have we had?

ELIAS: In relationships of siblings, friends, and partnership or association in business.

BEN: I know when we were in London, Mikah made some connection with Malia being his father for one focus. Was I around during that period?

ELIAS: Yes, but not in association with these individuals.

BEN: Ah, okay. What time framework was that? (Pause)

ELIAS: Nineteenth century.

JOE: So as far as Maliaís essence, how many famous focuses have I had?

ELIAS: And your impression?

JOE: I would think potentially a few.

ELIAS: Three.

JOE: Any of which you know of? (Elias chuckles) Well, okay, can I hear about all three? (Laughs)

ELIAS: I shall offer one for your investigation (chuckles slyly), and my choice of offering shall be playful. Heh heh heh! (Joe and Elias laugh) Female, 1500s, Spain, queen Ė and you may investigate.

JOE: Thank you! (Elias laughs loudly)

BEN: Wait a second, is 1500s when itís Juana la Loca?

ELIAS: (Laughs) Investigate!

BEN: Well, that doesnít ... okay, all right. I donít know, I have to go check my dates since I donít know when Juana the Mad Queen of Spain was reigning, so that would be playful enough if that were true (Elias laughs), but not having Colleen here as my on-the-spot history investigator, Iíll have to go do some research on that one.

ELIAS: Ha ha ha! Very well!

BEN: Malia also has a friend of his, Amanda, and they are extremely connected.

JOE: I was wondering how many focuses we have shared together.

ELIAS: Sixteen.

JOE: And our relationships?

ELIAS: You have engaged many different types of relationships with this individual in friendship, in family relationships, and also in romantic relationships. (Pause)

BEN: Letís see, what else do I want to ask about? Oh, okay. This is off the Malia track for a while, but I wanted to ask you. I hadnít really asked you before about my relationship with Derek Jarman, and it wasnít until we were in London at the National Portrait Gallery that I saw a portrait of him that was called ďSeer,Ē and it of course made me think that this was some objective information to myself that he was from the Sumafi family or something. But it was a very interesting relationship, so I would be very interested in any kind of information you could tell me about the two of us, or even about him since his disengagement. (Pause)

ELIAS: And what is the nature of your curiosity in relation to your interaction with this individual?

BEN: I think that we definitely must have had some focuses or at least ... well, I think possibly because of his connection with Oscar Wilde that perhaps we shared focuses during that time framework that were perhaps pretty intense or something, but it also had to do with the fact that I think anytime I connect in a sense almost instantly with someone that thereís an intense other bleed-through situation going on. Thatís my curiosity.

ELIAS: At times, you are correct, and in this situation you are correct; but this is not always the situation, Albert. At times you may be experiencing what you term to be an immediate connection, so to speak, with another individual, and this may not necessarily indicate that you share many focuses together. You may be recognizing a counterpart action with the individual, or you may be recognizing a similarity of tone of essence which does create a sense, so to speak, of tremendous familiarity of individuals. For in those similarities of tones of essences, generally speaking the essences engage many mergences and may explore many different dimensions in relation to each other. Therefore, do not confuse yourself in automatically assuming that the reason that you may experience this type of sensation is merely that you engage physical focuses in this particular dimension with another individual that translates into that type of familiarity.

As in this situation, you do engage other focuses with this individual and...

BEN: Around the Oscar Wilde time framework, correct?

ELIAS: Yes, and within other time frameworks also. And in this, I may express to you, in each focus that you participate in together what you generate is quite a similarity in what you term to be interests and directions.

BEN: Well, for me it has to do with becoming aware of the differences between these kinds of connections Ė thereís tone, thereís other focuses. To me, itís about knowing the difference. For example, when I met Malia here, right after meeting him I had a very physical sensation that to me meant here is a path that youíre welcome to take. Itís like a signpost that I told myself that if I want to go in this direction this could prove to be interesting, but I also realized that it was my choice. Just because I had given myself this signal didnít mean anything other than there was a connection there.

ELIAS: Correct, and allowing yourself to recognize and acknowledge that but not generating the assumption that this is dictating to you in relation to beliefs concerning destiny or fate, which denies your choices.

BEN: Right.

JOE: What number focus am I on? (Pause)

ELIAS: Total numbering of focuses within this physical dimension, 807.

JOE: Wow. And my present focus, is this one of the types of focuses I enjoy, or is this something new?

ELIAS: In relation to preference?

JOE: Yes. (Pause)

ELIAS: I may express to you, this type of expression that you have chosen in this particular focus is not what you consider to be new or tremendously different, and you do incorporate a preference for certain types of expressions that you exhibit in this focus also.

BEN: How many concurrent focuses do each of us have right now?

ELIAS: In this time framework?

BEN: Yes.

ELIAS: Which engage each other?

BEN: No, I just meant how many concurrent focuses of Albert are walking around right now? And the same thing for Malia. (Pause)

ELIAS: Albert, four; Malia, five.

JOE: And does my present focus ... do I know any of them?


JOE: Are any of them close to where I presently live?

ELIAS: No. Generally speaking, as I have expressed previously with other individuals, essences choose to be focusing manifestations in a particular time framework in different physical locations and not in association with each other, to be offering [themselves] a diversity of experience within your physical dimension, choosing different cultures and different types of expressions to be explored simultaneously.

JOE: Has Malia had more male or more female focuses? (Pause)

ELIAS: More male.

BEN: Did the headache that I was getting today before we had the session have anything to do with the session itself?


BEN: I thought Iíd kind of stopped that. Because I had such a headache the first time we met, and I was like going, ďOkay, why another one now?Ē Is it just the intensity of it or something, or the dread of it?

ELIAS: A fluctuation in energy, Albert, which you are responding to. There is in actuality a fluctuation occurring in association with an energy expression of Lawrence, which alters the energy expression of the phenomenon.

BEN: Is this another change in the phenomenon itself with you and Michael, that Lawrence has something to do with it and now itís fluctuating in some way and Iím picking up on that? Is that basically what youíre saying?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes, it is a different expression of energy. Lawrence has contributed to the energy exchange continuously from the onset, but it is reconfigured in this now for it is being expressed in a different manner, not within an objective physical expression.

BEN: Well, you spoke before about Lawrenceís role in the forum. I think one of the validations to me of this material or my interaction with you is that I feel very much like I have a role.

ELIAS: And so you do. (Pause) You have in actuality created quite an intimacy in your role within this phenomenon.

BEN: Yes, well, certainly among the participants.

ELIAS: Quite, and in a similar capacity in some expressions to Lawrence.

BEN: You lost me with that.

ELIAS: Lawrence incorporated an ability within physical focus to be pulling together individuals, in a manner of speaking.

BEN: Yes, we were very similar in that manner.

ELIAS: Correct. In association with the family alignment, Lawrence incorporated an allowance quite efficiently to be expressing those qualities that are exhibited within the Ilda family, and expressing outwardly in association with the common orientation in a manner which facilitated a type of binding together of individuals, who in other expressions may have experienced more of a separation than they are experiencing in association with Lawrenceís interaction. You incorporate a very similar expression and a natural allowance of this ability to facilitate a very similar action.

BEN: But in some senses I know that our styles are different. Because I was always quite impressed with the amount of correspondence and interaction and whatever that she did, and I know that I would never ... well, I canít see myself at this time going in that direction, where I would be as active on the email list and writing to people and whatever else, although I love to do it in person.

ELIAS: Correct. Your expressions objectively outwardly may be different in your choice of interaction, but the action that is created in your interactions is quite similar.

In this, I am acknowledging of you that you are recognizing the similarities but also not moving yourself into an expectation to be filling a role that has been chosen by another individual. For each of you are quite unique, and the point is not to be re-creating a particular role that another individual has chosen but to be allowing yourselves to move within your natural expressions, and allowing those expressions in your individual abilities to blossom. (Pause)

JOE: Actually, I have a question. My focuses, do they favor children? Have I had a lot of children?

BEN: What do you mean, have you yourself been a parent?

JOE: Been a parent more times than not.


JOE: Any thoughts on the role of my present focus or its purpose? (Pause)

ELIAS: Your purpose? (Elias raises his eyebrows and grins; Ben and Joe laugh)

JOE: Any reasons why I have chosen my present form?

ELIAS: As an experience.

JOE: Okay, then obviously this one is very different.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) I may express to you that within this focus you have chosen to be experiencing some differences in your exploration but also some similarities.

In this, you are merely exploring the diversity of expressions that you may be incorporating within this physical dimension, but there is no actual purpose other than incorporating the exploration in experience within a physical dimension. The point of physical manifestation is simply to be offering yourselves another avenue of self exploration, self as essence, and in this, as essence is continuously becoming and exploring and expanding in a manner of speaking, there is a continuous seeking out of new experience in discovery of self.

The expansion of essence is, in actuality, the continuous folding in upon self, and within any physical dimension the action is the same. You merely incorporate different environments, so to speak, with different components in a creative manner, [which] you choose to be incorporating as different facets of your exploration.

BEN: You know, as an extension of what we were talking about before, Iím sitting here looking at Joe, and I know we were talking before about preferences and Iím just wondering about my movement to where I developed sort of a preference for redheads. I was thinking before that maybe itís some kind of signal to me of maybe the United Kingdom or the British Isles or something, something that I definitely have a connection to. You know I have a huge connection to London, and I was thinking how did this develop, in what sense was this something that I became more and more aware of?

ELIAS: You are correct, this is associated with bleed-through. For in this, in allowing yourself to recognize your affinity and your preference in association with the British Isles, you are not limited in your preference to merely Great Britain but also to Ireland and Scotland, and [you] do incorporate many focuses in these physical locations.

Therefore, this aspect of your preference is not in actuality what you would term to be new but an allowance in this focus to be moving more into the association and objective recognition of that preference concerning these cultures and the types of manifestations of individuals within these physical locations and your connection with that, so to speak.

BEN: Does Malia have a focus within the French Revolution as well?


BEN: Were we partners in that focus, business partners?

ELIAS: Not partners, associates.

BEN: So I was working as a merchant and was he working as a merchant as well, or as a shopkeeper?

ELIAS: Yes, another merchant, but not in close association with yourself but in frequent exchanges.

JOE: Does Malia have any geographical preferences or associations, other than Spain?

ELIAS: And what is your impression?

JOE: My impression would be maybe other things European and also Southern, maybe Louisiana.

ELIAS: You do incorporate focuses within what you term to be southern areas of your northern America. I may express to you, many of your focuses are physically located within some European states and also many South American focuses.

JOE: Such as Brazil, Rio?


JOE: Chile?


JOE: And Argentina?


BEN: Well, there must be some Polynesian focuses in there somewhere, too.

JOE: Somewhere around Fiji?

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct in a draw to this type of expression of culture also, preferring what you define as manifestations that would be identified as natives, so to speak.

JOE: Also as people half-clothed on the beach. (Elias chuckles)

BEN: Well, I know I have a native focus in Argentina. Is that possibly one of the times that we were interactive?


JOE: What kind of interactive?

ELIAS: (With humor) Ah, shall you not attempt to be investigating together? Such a challenge! And perhaps incorporating fun in your exploration of these types of focuses together.

I may express to you, Albert, you also do incorporate a southern Pacific focus in a location of an island native with Malia.

BEN: Was it Fiji?


JOE: In the French Polynesians? Tahiti?

ELIAS: Smaller island.

JOE: Christmas Island?


JOE: I was trying to discover which of the focuses, because I believe there must have been at least one that Albert was my father.

ELIAS: Correct.

JOE: Was this only one time or multiple focuses?

ELIAS: Twice.

JOE: Around what period?

ELIAS: Fourteenth century and third century BC.

JOE: The location in the 14th century?

ELIAS: Investigate!

JOE: And the 3rd century?

ELIAS: Investigate!

BEN: Third century, Iím going to guess Greece or Rome.

ELIAS: Greece.

JOE: And then 14th century, Iím going to say Europe.

ELIAS: Quite general! (Laughter) You are correct...

JOE: Okay, Iíll say the British Isles.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Correct.

JOE: I was a redheaded Irishman.

ELIAS: Once again. (They all laugh)

JOE: Actually, my present parents, have I had many associations with them before?

ELIAS: Several.

JOE: As always parental or role model figures?


JOE: So I have chosen to have them as my parents, obviously, this time?


JOE: And was my mother always this neurotic?

ELIAS: Ha ha ha ha! And this is your perception! (Joe and Ben laugh) And you may question yourself in what you create in this manifestation of your parents and your association of neuroses.

BEN: I know you talk about trying to have fun and be more playful, but Iím always trying to figure out ... I think thatís one reason I like to have sessions with other people, because I find Iím a little bit less serious or something. But Iím always trying to figure out how can I have the most fun in this session? You know, like how can I play a game or something? Iím always trying to think of how I can enjoy having sessions with you, because sometimes Iím quite unsatisfied when theyíre over.

ELIAS: Allow yourself a freedom, Albert. Allow yourself to freely engage interaction. You express a rigidness (Ben laughs) in association with our interactions and an expectation of yourself that you must be incorporating certain types of questioning and that you are engaging conversation with myself to be offering yourself specific information that is expected.

BEN: I think for the most part I just like ... you know, when I introduced you to Lissette, she was going, ďOh, I should be reading some transcripts before I meet Elias,Ē and I was saying, ďNo, no, itís just like a friend of mine. Do you need to study before you have a conversation with someone? Itís just like you talk to them.Ē

I think for the most part when I get motivated to have a session, yes, I do admit thereís a rigorousness and a certain amount of information and I do like playing the focus game or whatever, but I think for the most part itís just like catching up with someone. I call you up and see how youíre doing, even if it is ďas always.Ē (Elias laughs)

You know what I mean, if I think that Iím going in a direction where Iím being rigid and perhaps not playful enough, Iíd be more than happy to let you ask me questions or some other way we can loosen up the interaction. That would be great!

ELIAS: Ha ha ha! Allow yourself to be engaging precisely what you have expressed. Let me express to you, Albert, in your associations and interactions with individuals within your physical focus, as you engage individuals in friendship, what is your interaction? Are you inquiring of these friends information concerning other focuses that you incorporate?

BEN: (Laughing) Yes, I see your point. (Elias chuckles) But I mean, I think with all of my relationships I have a tendency to go in the direction of intimacy, that to me is the more I get to know someone the more Iím testing just how intimate the relationship can be. And I think that if I was to meet you at a party it would be the same kind of thing. I would still be asking you what are your interests and where are you from, and still in a sense looking for information.

ELIAS: I am understanding. But you [would] also incorporate a sharing of information and experience concerning yourself.

BEN: Ah, is there something that Iím not telling you? Anything you want to know about me that you donít know already? (Laughing)

ELIAS: Ha ha ha! I am merely illustrating a point, that in this you express yourself objectively differently in interaction with myself. You allow yourself a thought process and a desire, so to speak, to be generating an intimacy and incorporating a similar type of interaction as you do with individuals within physical focus, but you also restrict yourself and become much more rigid in expectation of yourself and the types of interactions that you allow yourself with myself.

I may express to you that I may be quite playful, as you yourself have encountered and have watched. But you do not allow yourself to engage that expression with myself.

BEN: Well, letís do it now then! Help me out here!

ELIAS: (Laughs) Very well, proceed! Ha ha ha ha!

BEN: Just BE playful, right? Itís like go, be playful, go ahead! Sometimes I think it has to do with our own ... Iíve spoken to you about our relationship before. I mean, in some senses I certainly have huge issues about you being a know-it-all and the fact that I have my own issues about the relationship I set up between the two of us, and the fact that, oh, I donít want to go in a direction where itís like youíre my father confessor or my teacher or whatever else. I try to put us on the same level so I can have a conversation with you, but then I feel like Iíve got so many issues with you just going into the conversation, just going in with a headache from you, that sometimes Iím not as ... I kind of have to get that out of the way. But Iíve told you before that I donít particularly like you, so I thought that ... weíre certainly getting along better than we did in the beginning!

ELIAS: HA HA HA HA HA! Very well! Shall we be discussing playfully other subject matter that may be familiar to us each? Shall we discuss sexuality and your escapades, and how they parallel those in our interactions with each other, although I choose not to be physically manifest in this present time framework, to be engaging the action of the voyeur in association with yourself? Ha ha ha ha!

BEN: (Humorously) Yes, considering youíve watched me have sex before, youíre more than welcome to watch me have sex at any point now, too. Go right ahead.

ELIAS: Ah, how playful! (Laughs)

BEN: Youíre welcome at any time.

ELIAS: Ha ha ha ha! We engage in...

BEN: Now that weíre having this conversation that weíre going to talk about my sex life or whatever, I can tell you, as youíre probably aware, since I started reading this John Gray book when I connected him being a focus of Oliviaís, that Iíve been drawing myself to Ė also, in London we saw this documentary on Dirk Bogarde Ė that Iím drawing myself to these situations where gay men think that not having sex, or pretending that theyíre not really having sex, or having relationships with heterosexual men so they wonít have to have sex with them, I keep drawing myself to all this imagery or perceptions or beliefs about intimate relationships.

I mean, this whole thing about the Oscar crew and each one of them, one at a time, becoming Catholic and somehow that was supposed to be great: now weíre Catholic and now we wonít have sex with anybody and isnít that such a wonderful thing. And Iím looking at it from my perception, going, ďItís a cop-out.Ē You know what I mean: youíre not doing what you want to do; why arenít you? Thatís the information that Iím drawing to myself now.

ELIAS: But the beliefs expressed in those focuses, and the alignments with the beliefs, were expressed quite differently than you express presently. In this, the movement of the shift in consciousness within your previous century has been expressed subjectively; therefore not all of the movement incorporated objective expressions in association with allowance of this freedom that you are allowing yourselves now. And I may express to you, even within this time framework there are challenges and struggles that you are all engaging in the attempt to allow yourselves these expressions of freedom.

In that time framework, individuals moved into the expression of religious institutions in alignment with duplicitous beliefs concerning sexual activity, and therefore in movement into the alignment with the religious expression, there is an experience of absolution and therefore a presentment of comfort to the individual.

Within THIS time framework, you are moving in quite a different type of expression in association with this shift in consciousness, allowing yourselves much more of an expression of freedom in choice and directing of yourselves, and recognizing that there is no supreme being outside of yourselves that sits in judgment of you but rather that the judgment is generated within yourselves, and therefore offering yourselves an empowerment in choice rather than expressing an allowance to be dictated to by your beliefs or other individuals or establishments and institutions that you have created within your physical dimension. But even within this now you continue to challenge yourselves in relation to this freedom, and even within your allowance of a freedom of expression within sexual activity you restrict in some expressions.

BEN: I hope so. Well, since weíre going to have girl-talk here or whatever (Elias laughs), Iím sure youíre probably aware of our bedroom issues. Do you have any comments or friendly advice or whatever about the movement that Joe and I are going through, or our expression with each other?

ELIAS: This is an aspect of what Iím speaking to you of in restricting yourselves. This becomes translated in association with expectations concerning the other individual, but in actuality it is not concerning the other individual.

What is being expressed are restrictions that you each generate in association with yourselves individually. In this, what you may allow yourselves to explore and examine is how you deny yourself the freedom to express yourself, regardless of what your association may be with regard to the other individual.

You express wants, but the wants are generated in your own expressions and a tremendous desire to be outwardly expressing yourself in that freedom. Are you understanding?

BEN: Yes, I know in a certain sense that even when youíre having sex with someone else, youíre still basically having sex with yourself. I mean, itís like that feminist axiom or whatever, ďIím responsible for my own orgasm.Ē

ELIAS: This is one aspect, but I may express to you that the expression is much greater than merely this act. For the desire is to be freely expressing yourself within your allowance of appreciation and your allowance of a lack of separation, your allowance to be freely expressing affection and intimacy without restriction. The restriction occurs in the action of turning your attention to the other individual and anticipating the expressions of the other individual, and attempting to be accommodating of what you expect is being expressed by the other individual. And this is not the point.

Rather, allow yourself to express yourself in the same manner with another individual that you allow yourself to express yourself individually, in your terms, alone. You offer yourselves much more freedom in this expression of sexual activity in your own individual movement in that which you define as fantasy or desires, but you restrict yourselves as you interact with another individual. You do not offer yourself that same type of freedom, for you incorporate the beliefs in association with duplicity that express to you that certain movements are unacceptable, or you assume or anticipate that there are certain expressions that shall be unacceptable in relation to the other individual.

BEN: Sometimes we actually have conversations about such things and weíre objectively aware of the differences in our fantasies, shall we say; but then it becomes a situation where itís not like you THINK the other person isnít going to like something, youíve already DECIDED that the other person isnít going to like something. (Laughter)

ELIAS: Quite! And this is what I am expressing to you. This is the denial of your freedom, for you are anticipating and projecting expectations, which thusly creates your own limitations.

The point is, as you DO create all of your reality and as you create interaction with another individual as a reflection of what YOU are generating, if you are allowing yourself this freedom, the obstacle disappears.

BEN: Okay, weíll work on that. (Elias chuckles)

JOE: I have two more questions about Malia. My present sexual orientation, is this a usual recurring theme? Am I usually a homosexual?

ELIAS: In sexual preference? Do not confuse this with orientation, for they are quite different. But in an expression of sexual preference, I may express to you, you have often chosen this type of expression, but you also incorporate many focuses in which you do not incorporate this type of preference.

JOE: Do my preferences usually lean to recreational drug use?

ELIAS: In several focuses, yes.

JOE: And has that seemed to hinder them?

ELIAS: Not necessarily; it is a matter of perception and beliefs, for in this you have chosen experiences as an aspect of your exploration. Therefore, I shall not express to you that this has been a hindrance, so to speak. All of your experiences are beneficial. It is merely a question of your association with your beliefs and your perception concerning your experiences that creates the judgments in association with them.

BEN: (To Joe) Anything else? Okay, I think thatís going to do it for today.

ELIAS: Very well, my friends.

BEN: If you have any last words or whatever, you can throw those in.

ELIAS: Merely to be encouraging in your adventure and your escapades in allowance of freedom in your sexual expressions. Ha ha ha!

BEN: And will you be watching?

ELIAS: Perhaps! (Laughs)

JOE: If we can get him to express some of those freedoms, maybe then youíll watch!

ELIAS: Ha ha ha ha! Quite! What shall be the point of engaging voyeurism if you are merely engaging conversation? (Ben and Joe laugh) I am quite playful and quite drawn to action. (All laugh)

JOE: Yeah, me too.

ELIAS: Less talk! Ha ha ha! I engage the action of talking NOW! (Laughs)

JOE: Youíll have to come back to us physically for the rest.

ELIAS: (Laughs) I offer you both great encouragement, and I shall be offering playful energy to you. Therefore, be on the watch! Ha ha ha! To you both in tremendous affection, as always. Au revoir.

BEN: Au revoir.

JOE: Bye.

Elias departs at 2:58 PM.

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